the radical, counter-intuitive revive HA thread

[Selket]

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

I don't like heroes because I frontline. Anyone else that is a decent frontline doesn't like them either.

You see frontlines aren't just there to kill or do damage. They also get into the mind of the opponent, affecting the opponent's play.

Uh, heroes do the same thing every time, so you can always hit your bull's and know exactly how they're going to react.

Are you sure you didn't mean "anyone that is bad at frontline doesn't like them either"?

HA is terrible, heroes make it hilarious. Why would it be called heroes' ascent if there were no heroes, srsly.

[Apok Omen]

Originally Posted by Selket

Uh, heroes do the same thing every time, so you can always hit your bull's and know exactly how they're going to react.

Are you sure you didn't mean "anyone that is bad at frontline doesn't like them either"?

HA is terrible, heroes make it hilarious. Why would it be called heroes' ascent if there were no heroes, srsly.

Well, it used to be Tombs, but Anet changed it to HA. And it is called Heroes Ascent because:

A) Apperently you are a hero ascending to the mists in hopes of "honor and glory" (or in other words, titles and loot)

B) The Ghostly HERO follows you (or I could be wrong, this is just an observable guess)

Heroes weren't even around at the time.

Also, even though a hero is predictable, that does not change the fact that they cannot sense fear, have virtual anticipation, and can interrupt at half the level of the Ghostly Hero (sadly, the only players left have a much lower level of interruption).

And the only Heroes being used are ones that play the role of "passive-defensive/offensive" (i.e. smiters, teasers....) Thus, whenever you deal damage, inflict conditions, use hexes, or even use attack skills, they find a way to both recover from it and deal it back at you in an annoyingly powerful way (kinda like karma, only its not positive when it should be)

So, making the ever-so-common argument that Heroes belong in Heroes Ascent solely because they share the same name is irrelevant when discussing much need skill/game mechanics balance.

[Selket]

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Well, it used to be Tombs, but Anet changed it to HA. And it is called Heroes Ascent because:

A) Apperently you are a hero ascending to the mists in hopes of "honor and glory" (or in other words, titles and loot)

B) The Ghostly HERO follows you (or I could be wrong, this is just an observable guess)

Heroes weren't even around at the time.

Also, even though a hero is predictable, that does not change the fact that they cannot sense fear, have virtual anticipation, and can interrupt at half the level of the Ghostly Hero (sadly, the only players left have a much lower level of interruption).

And the only Heroes being used are ones that play the role of "passive-defensive/offensive" (i.e. smiters, teasers....) Thus, whenever you deal damage, inflict conditions, use hexes, or even use attack skills, they find a way to both recover from it and deal it back at you in an annoyingly powerful way (kinda like karma, only its not positive when it should be)

So, making the ever-so-common argument that Heroes belong in Heroes Ascent solely because they share the same name is irrelevant when discussing much need skill/game mechanics balance.

And yesterday you said you didn't care about heroes in ha

meanie mchypocrite.

[Apok Omen]

Originally Posted by Selket

And yesterday you said you didn't care about heroes in ha

meanie mchypocrite.

Oh, believe me, I AM a hypocrite, just not in this topic.

I don't care for heroes in HA. In fact, I believe they help fill in empty slots on teams that need an extra player or two but don't want to look for an extra hour. But when they are used in stale ways for the sole purpose to abuse certain advantages they have over the average player, then I, and the other players still interested in HA, have a problem with them.

I am simply pointing out those certain advantages and how annoying and frustrating they are.

[Kyp Jade]

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

The problem with WoW is that it lasts forever, can't be ripped, and isn't easy to interrupt when placed on that hero. Balancing the game isn't as simple as just nerfing a skill or making a skill counter it at this point. If you change a skill to make it able to rip weapons, the only thing you succeed in doing is killing build variety by having another skill that everyone has to take to be successful (such as SoC, "Make Haste," etc.). If you nerf warding, then something else will take its place and become overpowered. It might not be as simple as a skill, but it could be that a certain style of play becomes dominant as a result of the nerf.

that style of play thing you just briefly touched on is exactly what we want.
We want to be playing with skill (and by extension brains), and not playing A skill.

Also, with the way things are now with skills the way there are, more often than not you can lose a match before you even load into the area

We (pvp players) dont want something as simple where everyone is a warrior, go kill stuff, if we wanted that we would play counterstrike. Variety is a good thing, however it should be because a team is wanting to emphasize on a specific playstyle, or set of playstyles, not because build A crushes build B but dies to build C.

For example, (ill use a reference not too old) the recent zergway or other recent iway derivtives on a HoH relic run, had no snares, no anti snares, only a speedboost. Yet were still able to beat teams whose build was for all intents and purposes, BUILT to run relics in HoH. This is because the iway team adopted a 'zergrush' tactic, that many many people mistook for ganking. (putting all the iway team against 1 team until they were comftorably behind, and then doing the same to the other team)

Another example, which is completly UNHEARD of today except at the beginning of a 1v1 altar map, but was very common in proph days, and up thru early nightfall until song of conc went on every team. Altar maps (and this point is why altar maps are still the favorite of all old school gamers)

You either devoted a lot of build resources to use the force a capture (ward stability, spellbreaker, guardian [prot monks were rare in early-mid proph days]) its important note that this was basically the entire build back in those days, it had no offense to speak of, was very difficult to run, and while you could hold for days straight with this, few people had the time or the life to put *3-10 hours* just making it to HoH (1 run, no losses). Usually builds just had a 1 or 2 assist skills for the ghostly, not the entire holding build.

You played the interupt game, which is risky

Ghostly time killings, which depending on where the ghost is at the time, can be worth it, waste of time, cause a party wipe, or waste time.

Blocked ghostly (which was difficult in those days)

Zergrushed a team hoping to score key time kills.

etc etc etc

Back in the day (I sound old), few teams took just 1 path, and if they did thier build reflected it. Balanced builds could switch easily and very effictivly between playstyles or strategies to win the game, and switching up on the other teams quickly like that often won the game when you were losing otherwise. However there were some teams/builds that built just one way, and won games by brute force with those strategies.

Example,
-iway with zerg rushing (and having EoE as a bonus)
-Bloodspike with 8 monk elites
-Hostass [milk] (cant remember how to spell) build in early factions days, utilizing two copies of PD to keep ghostlies interupted.
etc etc etc

----------
what do we have today? when a single skill can basically completly do all of one playstyle on its own (see Song of Conc), a **BORING** game.

[Krill]

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

what do we have today? when a single skill can basically completly do all of one playstyle on its own (see Song of Conc), a **BORING** game.

It would be nice to have an HA without conc and mh!, rather than two money button skills for objectives that are suppose to present different challenges that can be approached different ways.

As for build diversity this epitomizes everything that is wrong with HA. There's nothing left but teaseway and the occasional lich spike and iway, maybe some teams with PD instead of gwen but practically the same build as teaseway otherwise.